Episode: Perversity and Organisational Destructivity
Interview with Prof. Susan Long
By Aaron Nurick
Recorded 7 November 2023

Episode description

Like people, organisations can develop perversions. The perverse state of mind often manifests as a resistance to change and a strong focus on individual pleasure at the expense of the collective good. Accomplices within an organisation can further perpetuate and reinforce this perverse dynamic. Understanding and recognising these dynamics can help us navigate and address systemic issues within organisations more effectively.

Professor Susan Long is the co-lead of the PhD program at the National Institute of Organisational Dynamics Australia, and a former president of ISPSO. She is a Professor Emerita with expertise in the psychoanalytic study of organisations, and joins Aaron to discuss her 2001 paper.
In her work, Susan explores the concept of perversion in organisations, focusing on the denial of reality, the role of narcissism, and the presence of accomplices within the system. Her research examines the dynamics of organisations from a psychoanalytic perspective, challenging traditional views of organisational pathology and advocating for a deeper understanding of unconscious processes within the workplace.

Links

• Professor Susan Long PhD – NIODA profile
• Organisational destructivity and the perverse state of mind – Susan’s 2001 paper